What happens when making art becomes your job?

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I've been photographing graffiti around LA for a new project.

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It's got me thinking about my friend TJ van Stone.

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used to paint together, and it's been more than 15 years since we really caught up.

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Since then, TJ has made a career out of tattooing.

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lately I've been seeing him share these incredible paintings, all done with spray paint.

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made me wonder what it

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feels like to come back to painting for yourself.

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After years of making art for a living.

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wanted to hear what that's been like for him. So I decided to give him a call.

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so what's going on TJ?

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How are you doing?

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Oh, no, it's bad man.

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That's good.

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Surviving as an artist.

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Hey, I mean, we'll be getting into that, I'm sure.

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thank you so much for joining to. I'm excited to.

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catch up. It's been like, has it been like

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15 or

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more?

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Maybe even more.

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Damn. That's that's a long time.

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I would love to even dive in. Like you've been doing tattooing.

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want to talk a little bit about us doing graffiti and kind of how it went from you doing graffiti to now doing tattooing.

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that's a really cool place to start off.

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Where I really would be interested is like, I don't think I've ever asked you this, and I think everyone has a unique origin story of how they started getting into graffiti.

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Like what? What was that for you?

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what got you into doing

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graffiti? What got you excited about that?

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Oh, man. That's.

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That's pretty young.

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Yeah. So 12

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Yeah.

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I wasn't hitting the streets or anything, but I had a, like, a art teacher at school, and he made us do a

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graffiti project,

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yeah, just when, like, the internet and graffiti were kind of starting to kick off.

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I think Art crimes was the

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only website that you could really look stuff up,

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and it wasn't great, but it was cool to see.

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it was good for the time though.

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Like, honestly Art crimes,

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I totally grew up on that.

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you just got insight into things more than your streets, which you and I had growing up in a smaller city. You just didn't see as much. So it was kind of cool to see it more out there.

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Yeah. Like I grew up a side of Brandon to not the Brandon's a huge city, but like, there was nowhere in culture there's cows and horses and fields around my place and.

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Yeah.

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So you're tagging cows when you start.

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Oh, I wish, but.

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We ended up moving into Brandon around grade six, and I was always like, just really artistic.

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just doing lots of like, nature studies or portraits. Like, we weren't super wealthy or anything growing up. So like anytime I wanted an action figure, something like that, I would just draw it

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over and over and over again.

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And then you have that just kind of kept me busy and it improved my drawing skills and everything.

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But yeah, then probably around three, eight, grade nine, I started hanging out with some kids that were kind of wrecking

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some stuff with markers here and there, and,

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they didn't have a ton of artistic talent. And I was just like, oh, you can do so much cool stuff with this. And I hadn't really experienced graffiti like that before, like I'd seen it on the internet and stuff like that.

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But like learning about the actual subculture

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almost like collecting.

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You want to like, get that spot like, oh, I got five rooftops, or I did

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20 trains and whatever.

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I don't know if that always just interested me. And I just found it, like super interesting.

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Like, if you're in some weird cuddy area fishing under a bridge and then you see somebody tag that's from the province over or whatever, that's the coolest shit around in my books. It's like finding a little treasure or something. It's that's why I liked

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I like that, though. I think I've that's what I've appreciated too, is it was always this, like, underground type thing that.

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Yeah, you went under a bridge. Like how many people are like, let's go look at for Art under a bridge.

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But people like you and me were like, yeah, let's go check out if there's some artwork under that bridge. And if there's not, let's paint that bridge.

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I'm curious to when you met some of those kids, you said they weren't that great at graffiti, which,

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everyone has their moments where they, like, try it out, stick with it or don't.

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did

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they introduce you into some of that subculture,

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some of the things like what a tag was, what's a throw up?

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What's a graffiti piece

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going over someone? What does that mean? Like this. You know, those fundamental things or

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my favorite was always like, don't leave your cans.

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where you paint it kind of thing, specially in a train yard, because it's like obvious that kids were there kind of thing.

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Oh, yeah. Keep it out.

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Those guys didn't teach me a lot about that. It was like a basic introduction. Told me not to use. Whoa. What, those Magnum 44. Because they

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just fade away.

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True.

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Mean streaks. I guess he showed me some of that stuff, but, like he did wasn't in all the time. He there. It was, like stolen garage paint and shit like that.

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Well, once I got older and kind of met some of the other guys around town that were seriously doing it, you'll learn pretty quick what to not paint over.

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That's true too, I think. Like you even recognize in your own skills to when you like, look up to people that are like, wow, that that painting is amazing. I'm not going to go over that kind of thing. It's like you have the just obvious respect for it. So

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Common sense, not so common

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Hey, I was gonna say sometimes, sometimes people still lack that common sense.

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and I think you learn to because sometimes people make mistakes and then their work just keeps getting going over because of that mistake of going over the wrong person

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Absolutely.

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it. You and I met probably later as you were painting, I think there was like one time we were both painting the same wall or something, and then just kind of were like, hey man, how's it going?

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Like, I feel like that's what it was, was

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It was the

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what was it called? We were both hired to do painting

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Yes, yes,

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that's what it was. We were in a warehouse.

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That's what it was. And we were both came at the same time because we could kind of come at any point,

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time of day to paint it. Yeah, that was really cool

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it ended up not happening. So our work

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just sat

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in a warehouse.

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Oh, it's an important building that's even cooler.

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Works all gone. But

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obviously.

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Yeah, they they didn't want to keep our work. It's fine.

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Yeah. What do you do?

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So, yeah, we got to paint lots together.

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I had moved away, and

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I was never around for when you moved into tattooing.

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I obviously love tattoos. Been heavily tattooed for years, but

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it's always cool to see someone going into tattooing. And actually, a lot of graffiti writers do. Like, that's a pretty normal origin story for a tattoo artist.

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So

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let's hear how you started out getting into tattoos.

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Oh, it was kind of accidental, I guess you could say. I don't mean that disrespectfully,

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I just become friends with a guy in

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town that's from Swan River, which is my hometown. So we kind of knew each other, but not really. I started getting tattoo's here and there. I was still working as an educational assistant at the school.

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So it, I wasn't getting a whole bunch or anything, just odd walking or whatever. But I became very good friends with those guys, and they were going to the tattoo convention in Saskatoon and my buddy tattoo, and wasn't nuts about doing script. But I can pump it out pretty quick. So I was just drawing it and he was starting it and made a bunch of money there that he would have normally never made.

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And then when we got back to Brandon, they offered me a shift and been doing it since.

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That's awesome. I love how that's like you kind of were just working behind the scenes and then it's like, all right, you should probably just do this. And so was it kind of just like an

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I don't know when you're into like doing art, like I grew up drawing all the time and painting and obviously graffiti and like even, even the photography, it's like all those are great creative outlets and I love trying different things.

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I think I even told you that I've, I have tried tattooing,

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not on skin, but just on like, fruits and, you know, doing the whole start because I'm like, it's an interesting thing to try, right? It just feels very natural where you're like, yeah, I mean,

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I kind of want to try that. So it was that just the opening for you or it was just like, yeah, why not?

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Yeah, I was like really sick and working at the school. I'd been there for like ten years, and I was at the top of my pay scale and wasn't really getting ahead or anything, and I was doing lots of portraits and like drawing, painting projects while I was working at the school, just because I was good for my head and a little bit of extra cash.

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And then when the opportunity presented itself to like, actually do art for a living. I was like, I gotta do this. This would

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be a crazy opportunity to turn down.

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And I

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it was a gamble, but I'm glad I did

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What did the apprenticeship look like for you? I know that can vary for tattoo artist to

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Sometimes I wonder even if I did one, but

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I just, I don't know, here in small town Manitoba, obviously we're on the lower end of the apprenticeship. This mine was maybe six months and then you had to work basically for free. The shop collected all the money that you brought in that first year when you're on like apprentice rates and

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just kind of paying your dues

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back to the shop, I guess

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it's, my shop I started, I wasn't typical, we were all employed like a business.

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So you got a paycheck every two weeks and vacation pay, that kind of stuff. Compared to most shops where you're like a private contractor, self-employed. Take care of your own shit.

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So you did that for a while. Eventually you've running your own shop to like, how how did that happen?

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Oh, I worked at that first shop for about two years, including my apprenticeship. And then we were having some disagreements. So I, packed my stuff and went to a different shopping town. I worked there for about five years. I was supposed to be able to buy into that shop there the five years. But the the owner that agreed to that forgot about

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Oh, no. So,

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yeah, I mean, it's funny when people just lie to

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Damn, man.

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that kind of gave me a kick in the ass. And I was like, you know what? I can do this. And, like, it's kind of sick of just, like, not being able to decorate like the rest of the shop or, I don't know, just kind of like little fine details, like it was all right, work in there and everything.

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And we had lots of freedom with your schedule to do what you want. But there just wasn't like, a lot of effort put into like, the rest of the shop. And like, I just wanted, like a nicer esthetic and, you know, I don't know. Hang some art on the walls. I want to see a tattoo shop, not a bunch of posters.

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No, I get that. I think, like, even as someone who goes to tattoo shops and gets tattooed

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you want that atmosphere. And I've been in all different

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atmospheres. I've been tattooed at like conventions.

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That's a whole different, you

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know, one in general.

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My favorite one actually is episode. I've had one of the artists, Kevin Maher, who's a tattoo artist in San Francisco. He's done a lot of work on me, but he has like a private shop, and that has actually been my favorite because he sets this amazing atmosphere is just you and him getting, you know, doing the tattoo.

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it feels like this really like chill space, but it's also heavily decorated in tattoo art. And you're like, yeah, you expect that? Like, it would be weird even if I went to like an apartment setting and it didn't have that, I'd be like, yeah, this feels weird. It

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just feels like I'm getting tattooed in an apartment,

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my on Candid Camera

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something.

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I like that,

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so I like that though too, is you definitely got the experience working with different people, different artists,

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working at the different types of shops.

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Now that made you kind of. All right, I'm going to try this out on my own. I am curious, one thing that I know a lot of artists go through, too, is like it can be lonely being an artist in general.

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But like, bouncing ideas off one another can be a little bit harder. You're just now tattooing by yourself. There's not really that other artist that's next to you to maybe get inspiration from and things like that. I'm curious how you deal with that.

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Yeah. Awesome. It's tough sometimes, honestly. Like, I really crave a beard. Art, conversation a lot of time. And I got somebody here that are good convo for sure. Good advice and kind of trying bounce some ideas off there when I can. And then yeah, just like online conversations to Saskatoon's got a real good community of like graffiti tattoo artist.

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It's I've been going out there every now and then and it's cool. Yes, it is kind of adapt, I guess, in a way, or find other things to give you. Even sometimes people that aren't and aren't, they'll be like, oh, I don't really know or will say something and I'll be like, that

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is really good idea. Like, I see so

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many artists just like dismiss anything that their clients say because they're not artists that I don't know.

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We're all people. Sometimes you're scared of that drawing for a day too long and you don't even like it anymore. And then they come in with a fresh set of eyes and suggest something, and it can turn it all

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Oh man, I can heavily relate to that too, because, like, actually one of my favorite critiques on like, anything I do is probably my son.

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He's so brutally

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honest. But also it's that different perspective that you get when you're just like you're looking at it too long, and that's true. And then someone's like, why is this? Like, you know, hand off here and you're like, oh my God.

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Like, I didn't even notice it because I was so

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in the detail of this or that.

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And I think that that's that's cool. I think it feels like your answer to that, it it sounds like you're more intentional about it,

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like you have to be

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it doesn't just come to the day to day where there's people around you. You actually have to seek out people's input or make time for that.

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Yeah,

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No.

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It's good. That was the one that I'm sure is not easy when you're by yourself.

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Yeah, it does get a little lonely in here some days, but I don't know, it's I just like it better being alone I think like I like you were saying about the atmosphere and like being chill. Like, if I know I got maybe more anxious client showing up that day. I'm not going to have the metal playing. I'm not going to have, you know, somebody rant or even an about the party on the weekend, you know, like a big shops and area.

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You can't avoid that.

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Like

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no,

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the guy works with across the hall. I love him, great guy, but he for sure scared some of my older

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I think what I really appreciate is a lot of the time with getting in a private shop was I was also like, I'm getting my full body tattooed.

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So it's like, I don't want to be laying with my butt hanging out

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while there's just random people coming into the shop and stuff.

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It's not that big of a deal. Like it's not doesn't bother me too much, but it just feels like you're like, oh yeah, I'm super vulnerable right now and like, you're just some random person that I have no idea.

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Like, if you were walking the shop or another tattoo artist comes in and like, is looking at it, it just it's not the same, but just some random person

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yeah, if you don't have your butt tattooed already,

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like you have to get your butt tattooed before you can view I like that.

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Yeah.

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So how long has it been on the private tattoo studio

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Oh, I opened in

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So you're out, like, four years now?

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yeah, just. Yeah. I guess next summer

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I also wanted to call out some of your work, like, now that you've been tattooing, I see a lot

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black and gray, but I also see a mix of color.

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is there a preference for you? Some artists do, some artists don't.

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I personally like black and gray better. I shouldn't say better. I like them both. Black and gray is a lot easier to get into the skin for me. Anyways, I find it got a pretty quick hand speed, so trying to slow down to pack that color. Sometimes I run into issues with saturation, so.

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And black and gray was

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just seems to be more popular around here,

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so I get a lot more

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no, that makes sense.

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painting I kind of like color more sometimes,

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Does it matter on the subject matter though, too?

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Yeah, I find some tattoos just look better color and some tattoos just look better

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What's your style of tattooing?

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If you had to describe it to someone, how would you describe

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Probably illustrative, I guess. I do quite a bit of black and gray illustrative stuff. It's not like super duper photo realistic, but it's still pretty real, but looks drawn at the same time, not just printed or whatever. I try and do some American traditional probably ends up being a little bit more neo trad most of the time, but follow the rules

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you I think you have to follow those rules in

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traditional tattoos.

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as someone who's I'm not a tattoo artist, but pay attention. It's like when someone gets that traditional tattoo and it's not following the rules. It's like it doesn't look

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if there's something off in it and it's like you can see it.

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So I get that there are certain rules you still have to follow as an artist.

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Do you find, though, that you're able to challenge some of those rules because like,

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not necessarily in traditional maybe like you're still have to follow certain things, but in ways that you practice. I would be curious if your approach to that a little bit differently over the years.

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Yeah, I've definitely kind of figured some stuff out. The guy who taught me, kind of taught me, I don't know, use the liner as lines and use this one nine mag to fill everything in. And I in my head, I was like, this kind of see, you know, it's it's just mark making it doesn't really, like, have to be you can only use these needles to

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make these lines,

00:20:15:13 - 00:20:19:15

like creating texture with them, getting in little corners.

00:20:19:15 - 00:20:30:22

So you kind of hit with the mag. Like I have to learn a lot of that on my own on same with machines. Now do they just are so

00:20:30:22 - 00:20:32:21

different from when I started?

00:20:33:00 - 00:20:33:16

Like

00:20:33:18 - 00:20:38:14

and for the better, right? Like they from what I've seen.

00:20:38:16 - 00:20:39:14

Yeah, I got some

00:20:39:14 - 00:20:43:00

that. All right, let's hear, man.

00:20:43:02 - 00:20:59:08

I love I still use coils to rock outlines and I don't know, those pens can't compete in my books. I haven't found one at least that has the like to get big like round groupings in August. Find it. But I

00:20:59:13 - 00:21:03:02

and gray. It's so nice and soft and

00:21:03:04 - 00:21:08:01

you know clip quarter foot Nuttall. But I can't fully switch.

00:21:08:01 - 00:21:13:17

So I still got a foot pedal and all the cords. I'm just kind of doing, you know, best

00:21:13:17 - 00:21:16:15

I think that makes sense. It's like what works for you

00:21:16:15 - 00:21:24:22

like, I also like that you try different things too, because like sometimes, especially after as many years you've been tattooing or any artwork you're doing, you kind of get stuck in those

00:21:25:01 - 00:21:27:09

habits. Like even back to graffiti days,

00:21:27:12 - 00:21:30:16

we went through the ages of like where there's different tips to

00:21:30:21 - 00:21:31:02

use.

00:21:31:02 - 00:21:33:01

And like you, I remember getting

00:21:33:01 - 00:21:37:04

kind of stuck on, like, these are the ones I use, and you

00:21:37:08 - 00:21:39:02

just I think you.

00:21:39:04 - 00:21:39:20

So

00:21:39:22 - 00:21:48:15

you need to experiment more or even, like, types of paint. I remember I'd be like, this is my outline that I always use. And it's like, yeah, you get kind of stuck in that.

00:21:48:15 - 00:21:50:06

It's not necessarily a bad thing,

00:21:50:09 - 00:21:55:14

But the willingness to try, I think is is cool because you have to experiment

00:21:55:16 - 00:22:08:21

Definitely. And like just yeah, like you said, experimenting with like round shader versus liners and different types of the needle grouping to make a big difference. And

00:22:08:23 - 00:22:16:23

Any tattoos that you're excited to do, like any subject matter or things that you're just like, oh, I want someone to walk in the door tomorrow and

00:22:17:02 - 00:22:20:23

get a full back piece of this or whatever,

00:22:21:01 - 00:22:50:00

Yeah. I like tattooing a lot of different subject matter. Any like kind of creepy stuff or like anything that I can kind of create like a narrative or a little story in my head, I find it just comes together way easier. You don't ever get stuck being like, what kind of background or what do I do? You know, if you have the story, there's a setting and that's your background.

00:22:50:02 - 00:22:56:18

All the subject matter is kind of itself. And versus people come in with like

00:22:56:22 - 00:22:58:08

a bunch of different ideas

00:22:58:09 - 00:23:14:21

and then they're like, well, let's do the cloudy backgrounds. And I'm like, there's no visual like focal point. And I don't know, some people like that, and I shouldn't even talk like I didn't plan

00:23:15:00 - 00:23:16:22

this at all. But

00:23:17:00 - 00:23:23:12

I see both sides getting a patchwork like arm or whatever.

00:23:23:14 - 00:23:49:10

I always tell people, just leave the friggin background out of it and put those patchwork tattoos nice and close together, and you don't even really need it. And it just, I don't know, I find that I've adjusted my consulates a lot now where I tell people like, you gotta think what you want your arm or egg or whatever to look like when you're done getting tattoos on.

00:23:49:12 - 00:23:54:03

It's all they're all going to look kind of strange until that whole

00:23:54:08 - 00:23:55:17

limbs gone, you're always

00:23:55:20 - 00:24:12:23

have a weird gap or somewhere. And I find so many people just get anxious about it and they're like, I need to fill all these little gaps. And I'll tell people like, just leave them if you'll get a convention one day and you'll get a gumball tag or something.

00:24:13:01 - 00:24:17:09

And I don't know, I've never been nuts about the dots of stars

00:24:17:11 - 00:24:18:10

to

00:24:18:12 - 00:24:26:11

But then, that being said, I like doing Japanese stuff a lot too. And there's like a lot of rules to follow there,

00:24:26:11 - 00:24:29:07

to have it look remotely authentic.

00:24:29:07 - 00:24:36:18

it's it's. And then even with them, the background is so important. It drag brings everything together.

00:24:36:21 - 00:24:49:06

And like the season has to be correct with whatever your subject matter is. And I don't know, it's a lot more planning than a 15 minute consultation. Show

00:24:49:06 - 00:24:49:18

fix.

00:24:49:20 - 00:24:50:22

Pinterest fix. And.

00:24:51:04 - 00:24:55:05

Though. I do like what you said about the story aspect to it,

00:24:55:08 - 00:24:58:12

because Japanese is very story oriented

00:24:58:14 - 00:25:00:13

like there's so many rules to it.

00:25:00:15 - 00:25:05:17

And like you said, the background is absolutely as important as the foreground.

00:25:05:21 - 00:25:14:00

I like what you said though, because it's like even when you do any tattoo, it's like you're putting that story in there, even if nobody really knows it.

00:25:14:00 - 00:25:20:04

It's just like you're building that narrative. You know what time of day is it? It's at sunset. Is it spooky? Is it,

00:25:20:09 - 00:25:21:23

are there birds in the sky or whatever?

00:25:21:23 - 00:25:25:12

And like, what did they add to the overall feel and vibe

00:25:25:17 - 00:25:28:15

with anything this isn't just tattooing. This is like artwork.

00:25:28:15 - 00:25:34:14

Anything is like when you start to add things in, I feel like you need to have a good reason for it,

00:25:34:16 - 00:25:38:21

why is this piece here? Like, why is this element being added? It's not just

00:25:38:23 - 00:25:40:10

looked cool. That's

00:25:40:11 - 00:25:42:00

not probably a good answer because

00:25:42:01 - 00:25:47:02

like might take away from the over arching of the theme.

00:25:47:04 - 00:25:52:22

I ran into that lot, so I put too much stuff in sometimes and

00:25:53:00 - 00:25:54:18

We did that with graffiti all the time.

00:25:54:19 - 00:25:58:07

Like it was like you'd be like, oh, I went wild on this, like fill. And

00:25:58:07 - 00:26:00:23

like, you lost the letters, man. Like, it's

00:26:01:03 - 00:26:04:13

like it's all gone.

00:26:04:15 - 00:26:11:05

Yeah, exactly. Well, it's kind of interesting too. You got a really consider how that tattoo is going

00:26:11:05 - 00:26:13:09

to sit in your skin for the next few

00:26:13:11 - 00:26:29:04

years to talking about stuff, getting too busy to many fans experience and stuff like you gotta have some restraint in tattooing, especially to. I think it's kind of similar to graffiti in a way.

00:26:29:05 - 00:26:38:23

Like if you're painting a train, you're probably not going to bring like 80 cans and do a crazy super technical

00:26:38:23 - 00:26:39:13

able to read it.

00:26:39:18 - 00:26:40:04

to be able to

00:26:40:07 - 00:27:03:06

read it, especially when it's written by on the highway or whatever. So typically you kind of plan something a little more simple that suits what it's going on. And tattooing is kind of the same way, you know, like you don't want to put a super detailed portrait on the side of some drive up knee or something.

00:27:03:07 - 00:27:18:17

It's just going to distort so bad and get, you know, if you're a mechanic and you're on your knees all day like it's not a good spot, it's got to kind of think about your lifestyle and what you're trying to achieve with that tattoo to

00:27:18:19 - 00:27:22:05

I love that you said all that too, because, yeah, even body placement matters.

00:27:22:05 - 00:27:24:01

And and just thinking strategically

00:27:24:03 - 00:27:36:20

about the flow and how it's placement is obviously very important. But I mean, it goes to the artwork side of things too. Like you have one of your artwork hanging right behind you there,

00:27:36:20 - 00:27:40:18

and it's like a gorgeous I don't know what kind of bird it

00:27:40:20 - 00:27:43:11

hard. Now I see it, now I see it more,

00:27:43:12 - 00:27:43:20

Fancy

00:27:43:20 - 00:27:46:04

know, even how you lay out your paintings, there has

00:27:46:08 - 00:27:49:02

perfect details, thoughtfulness, like, where is

00:27:49:04 - 00:27:51:20

not just a bunch of background and things like added.

00:27:51:21 - 00:28:01:07

You've also been doing a lot more painting lately, and I was curious about that. It feels like going full circle. It's like you've been doing tattooing for a while now. You're getting back into more painting.

00:28:01:12 - 00:28:05:10

what's caused the need to do more? Painting

00:28:05:12 - 00:28:28:10

Oh, it's just kind of going through some shit. And I don't know, painting and art like that genuinely makes me feel that feel better. And I don't know, it's kind of like a love hate relationship with it, like put so much into those paintings or whatever. And then once it's done to me, it's just kind of a

00:28:28:11 - 00:28:31:16

check mark onto the next thing.

00:28:31:18 - 00:28:53:00

grab a bottle. Know that good feeling when it's done? I get it more while I'm making it, but I don't know. It's kind of like just dried the machine of like, oh, why did I do it like that? And then on to the next one. And I kind of find that with tattooing too.

00:28:53:01 - 00:29:08:10

Not that I'm like, I did a bad job, but I'm like, I just pick it apart and pick everything apart and I'll stare at that picture. And when tattooing was super busy, I just found that it was

00:29:08:14 - 00:29:11:04

like create, create, create. And

00:29:11:07 - 00:29:19:10

know, I just feeling good inside. It was so I needed to balance it just to kind of level me out.

00:29:19:11 - 00:29:38:22

And the industry here's been pretty slowly at least, like the time to paint, which has been awesome. But when it was super busy, there still is that. I was like, I wish I could just stay home and paint. And I mean, I need balance, I can't do it or I

00:29:39:00 - 00:29:40:15

No, that makes a ton of

00:29:40:17 - 00:29:42:17

I feel like doing something creative

00:29:42:19 - 00:29:52:02

is for me has always been something like any type of creative outlet is something that just makes me feel good. It's like if I'm not creating something, it's like, oh, this is not good. It doesn't

00:29:52:04 - 00:29:53:17

feel great. So

00:29:53:19 - 00:29:55:08

I totally

00:29:55:10 - 00:29:58:13

yeah, it's like, I get that like it's it totally makes sense.

00:29:58:15 - 00:30:03:18

I like what you said to that. You almost like once it's done, you're kind of over it. It

00:30:03:18 - 00:30:05:13

feels like.

00:30:05:15 - 00:30:14:14

anytime I've painted, I've felt like that too. And it's like you point out all the things you dislike or just want to move on from. And it got me thinking,

00:30:14:14 - 00:30:16:04

like doing graffiti on trains.

00:30:16:04 - 00:30:17:13

The trains left, they're

00:30:17:18 - 00:30:21:20

gone. It's like you don't have to think about them anymore. And I always truly love that.

00:30:22:00 - 00:30:23:12

And you kind

00:30:23:12 - 00:30:38:13

of have it with tattoos as well. Like, yes, you'll have clients come to you again and you'll see that artwork or you'll see them out, whatever. I know you'll still see those pieces of work, but it's kind of nice in a sense, to is like, you're not staring at it.

00:30:38:13 - 00:30:39:05

It's not on the

00:30:39:08 - 00:30:43:02

wall going, oh, I wish I didn't do that or I would want to change that.

00:30:43:08 - 00:30:46:05

It is.

00:30:46:07 - 00:30:49:15

Yeah, I agree with you 100% there, man. It's

00:30:49:17 - 00:30:58:03

I mean, I think it's good to sometimes seeing those mistakes as I mean, they are I guess they're mistakes or things that you would do differently. It's just showing your growth too,

00:30:58:05 - 00:30:59:16

right? It's just showing like

00:30:59:21 - 00:31:10:03

maybe being forced to look at your work all the time is a good thing. Like it's like then you can kind of be like, oh yeah, like next time I do a bird, I'm gonna just adjust this way.

00:31:10:03 - 00:31:16:18

I do the beak or something that you just didn't like, and I think so in some ways it's a good reminder.

00:31:16:20 - 00:31:55:14

Definitely. Yeah. It, even just this summer, I did those few bird paintings. There was the one big frame crow and my buddy's bar. And just the progression of those three over one summer. I learned so much from them and, like, just layering it. I mean, things are speeding up so fast already. It's it's cool to see a little bit of progression, especially on like something that you are pretty proud that already like, I hadn't been doing a lot of major with just gray paint.

00:31:55:16 - 00:31:59:15

That's kind of where my tattooing leaped over

00:31:59:18 - 00:32:10:09

into graffiti, almost, because I find my graffiti doesn't really leak into my tattooing as much. I just find a lot of

00:32:10:11 - 00:32:13:21

graffiti style tattoos. Maybe don't hold up

00:32:13:22 - 00:32:26:02

the best. Like you can't put like a yellow one shot around your black outline and skin, or just a bad and just not as like

00:32:26:04 - 00:32:27:06

punchy I guess.

00:32:27:07 - 00:32:27:10

Or

00:32:27:16 - 00:32:52:14

yeah, it, it was nice to try that. I painted a semi trailer was probably 811 or so and it was all for the Riverbank Discovery Center, so it was like a little river scene and it was all with spray paint. But that was back. It was Home Depot paint and that's it.

00:32:52:18 - 00:32:53:13

You got like

00:32:53:13 - 00:32:56:12

two greens and couple browns

00:32:56:14 - 00:33:22:03

it was pretty limited, even with the caps and stuff to it's compared to now. It's crazy. And that when I was doing that painting all those years ago, I was like, this is so much fun. Just like creating the rocks and doing shading. And I was like, I just loved it because it wasn't like traditional graffiti.

00:33:22:05 - 00:33:34:23

And I, I don't know, it just kind of got lost in the back of my head. And then doing all these tattoos with similar, similar, like subject matters, I just was like, I want to do some

00:33:35:01 - 00:33:48:19

I also love that too. Is like, I was curious of like where how much does graffiti bleed into tattooing? But I love even hearing how it's like bled the other way where it's like you're now all these skills that you've learned

00:33:48:23 - 00:33:53:23

through tattooing and like the shading and all those like little details to get in

00:33:54:00 - 00:33:58:13

you're and also the the paints have drastically changed since when we started graffiti.

00:33:58:13 - 00:33:59:09

Oh my god.

00:33:59:11 - 00:34:17:12

Like the different pressures, the the mount of colors that you can get. And so you can go really wild on layering and details. And that's what really caught my eye when I was seeing you do these nature scenes. I'm like the mount of depth that he's adding in is crazy because yeah, you're not limited

00:34:17:14 - 00:34:20:16

2 or 3 colors of the, of a green and you're like, all right, that's it.

00:34:20:16 - 00:34:40:10

I've got like a bright, a dark and one that's like medium that doesn't quite match either of them. Like, there was just you couldn't get the what you needed in the different values. So it's cool to see you take that back and apply it. Now that the technology in spray paint has evolved, but also your skills have drastically evolved.

00:34:40:10 - 00:34:41:11

So it's cool to see

00:34:41:17 - 00:35:11:10

Yeah yeah. It's been yeah I love doing those. It's great. And yeah, quality of the paint and everything. It's just I don't know I find spray paints like the perfect medium. It saturates easy. You can get very nice soft blends or you can have like the straightest perfectly sharp edge all one can one cap essentially two if you're decent with it.

00:35:11:12 - 00:35:12:15

And yeah,

00:35:12:21 - 00:35:28:23

like a, like what you said, the different pressure or the like, you can get like a different line cut shaded. And it truly is just even with one tip because you're like going closer to the wall, you're pulling back, you're, you know, fanning whatever it may be just to get that effect, which is kind of cool

00:35:29:00 - 00:35:48:15

Yeah. Lately I've been experiencing the like, leave the can and then hit the canvas and like if you can kind of curve it. I find if you spray obviously a like a

00:35:48:17 - 00:35:49:11

like

00:35:49:13 - 00:35:50:00

it,

00:35:50:02 - 00:36:02:17

cone comes out of it and the bottom of a cone, a circle. So if you're only catching the lip of that circle, barely any pain takes the wall and you can kind of it's

00:36:02:19 - 00:36:06:03

that's cool. Is that kind of what you're finding works well for some of the

00:36:06:05 - 00:36:07:01

like the feathers

00:36:07:04 - 00:36:08:04

like that texture.

00:36:08:04 - 00:36:10:01

motion and.

00:36:10:03 - 00:36:19:03

That's so cool. I like that too. Yeah. There's, I don't know if you ever saw the one artist. He was, he was San Diego. San Francisco.

00:36:19:04 - 00:36:30:19

his name is Tour Boogie, and he he painted a mural in Toronto, and I got to, like, I was filming it, and I met him and a few different things he painted while he was there, but he was visiting.

00:36:31:00 - 00:36:38:08

what I really liked about his work, too, that it was unique, is he would like, flip the cans upside down. I feel like he even like

00:36:38:08 - 00:36:48:03

cooled them and stuff just to get this like certain pressure to like really manage the the way the paint came out. And I've seen lots of people do these things over the years.

00:36:48:03 - 00:36:54:16

But like his stood out like I watched him paint so much and I was like, whoa, this is such a cool technique.

00:36:54:16 - 00:37:10:22

Okay. Yeah. It's crazy. We can do it. Those fans. I just learned one off of Instagram. I can't believe I didn't know, but you're running out. Give that can a little stomp and it'll be compressed some gas in there. And get

00:37:10:22 - 00:37:19:20

body. That would have been handy many times. Like I did not realize that either, just to get that little extra bit of paint in the

00:37:19:22 - 00:37:20:18

Yeah.

00:37:20:20 - 00:37:24:10

curious if you're looking to do more paintings, like, are you wanting more nature?

00:37:24:10 - 00:37:30:15

What subject matter that people, you know, you'd be excited if they asked you to do

00:37:30:16 - 00:37:33:05

Honestly. Anything.

00:37:33:06 - 00:37:33:16

True,

00:37:33:17 - 00:37:35:12

not logos,

00:37:35:14 - 00:37:37:15

but that one's

00:37:37:17 - 00:37:47:20

Where, can people get in touch with you if they're wanting to see your work, your tattooing, your shop, all the things that you could, you know, leave our listeners

00:37:47:22 - 00:38:04:10

I'm available on Instagram at TJ. We to over I even know my shop number 2044412873 or laughing crow

00:38:04:12 - 00:38:11:09

Right on. Well thank you so much TJ for joining me. It was good catching up and just hearing your

00:38:11:11 - 00:38:13:18

since we kind of left off in the graffiti days.

00:38:13:23 - 00:38:19:07

you know, it's been cool to see you go full circle now. Just like leveling it up to you, which is very